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Feedback Foccus Group 2
Transcript
Key
| , | short pause |
| … | long pause |
| [xxx] | description of non-verbal activity e.g. [laughs] |
| xxxx | Accented words in speech e.g This is really important |
| (xxx) | When a person is talking over/between another person |
| ? | When a person raises their voice in the form of a question |
| xxxx | Text in red may be a technical term and needs checking for accuracy |
| S | Sue |
| P | Participant (Scott, Kay, Lizzie, Mia) |
| Ps | Several participants talking |
| S | Thank you very much, and thank you very much for joining us for this focus group, my name’s Sue | 0:00 |
| P | Er Scott | |
| P | Kay | |
| P | Lizzie | |
| P | Mia | |
| S | Welcome! So um, this focus group is just going to really chat about what you think the feedback is like, um on your course, and you’re really open to say anything, I’ve got a set of questions but to be fair if we kind of just let it flow and then I’ll then just check that all the different elements of it that I’ve kind of covered by the end and I’m assuming that on the basis of we did one earlier we’ll probably be chatting for about an hour, and if it gets any longer than that I’ll probably sort of tidy it up a bit and say that we’ve probably covered everything we need to cover, so I suppose what I’d like to ask you is er, where abouts in your programme do you feel you get feedback and what does that looks like… | |
| P | Um, probably from academic work like assignments or presentations, dissertation, we get feedback through the LearnUCS with our grade, and there’s feedback attached to that so | 01:05 |
| P | Yeah in placement we get feedback from our clinical lecturers (P Yeah) um, plus you’ve got your station reports so you’ve got that ongoing but at university you only generally get feedback after you’ve submitted an assignment or you’ve done an assessment, so during the actual studying period there’s no real feedback to your learning… | |
| S | And do you think that’s something that you would like to have … | 01:41 |
| P | [breathes out] It would be nice because it gives you it’s like a barometer s you sort of know where you are and I don’t think it would be difficult to implement, for the nature of the course that we have um, because it is lecture based | |
| P | I think there always is questions at the end, so they sort of say what they’re going to be talking about and include at the end what they have discussed and then they’re open to questions then so if you haven’t quite understood, so that’s kind of feedback in a way so if you’ve not got what they’re talking about they’ll explain more um but not actual proper feedback until the assessments really, I’d say | 02:00 |
| P | I’ve had one assessment and my feedback was about, it was like three bullet points, and it didn’t really give me proper like it just said um…more references, I didn’t know how many more that meant because I put….must have been about 12 in, but it said more references I don’t know whether they want more like (S Different kinds or ) 50 or more like 15 I don’t know, I didn’t really get a good, and like there was like spelling, but what spellings I don’t know and stuff like that (S Mm) it wasn’t very precise it was kind of general, I feel like I could have done with more feedback on it um because I felt like I was going to get a first but when I actually got it I got a 2:2 so it wasn’t what I was expecting at all I felt like I could have done with some kind of, even just a five minute slot where you have a day five minutes and you just come in and talk to them…all I’d need is just a little bit saying this spelling’s wrong this spelling’s wrong or what we mean by more is this you know just a couple of sentences | |
| P | Yeah I found the first year, because I’m in the second year now in the first year you got a little less feedback especially with exams er, and those sort of elements, but when you did a written assessment you got a little bit more (P Yeah) than a bullet point however this year for our exams we got the opportunity to go through that? So we got the opportunity to speak to the tutor and look at our exam papers and see where there was room for improvement, so I think it’s changed slightly to what it was, um it’s the same with um assignments, there’s a little bit more information on the assignments because initially it was just bullet points (P Yeah) like er a quick snapshot of where needed to be improved | 03:26 |
| P | I do need a bit more explanation for me anyway though because I’m dyslexic and dyspraxic and have Earl’s Syndrome so stuff like, written assignments is awful for me, is very stressful and takes me a long time so that’s kind of stuff I do need a lot of help with my feedback for… | 04:06 |
| S | So [clears throat] when you got the feedback for the exam, was that um something that was timetabled or you just went along if you fancied going or | |
| P | Yeah it was it was um it was if you wanted to know for myself I got my grade it was right or wrong so once you’ve passed you know you got that thing there was no point in me um sort of labouring on that point because I sort of you know knew the areas where I’d made a few mistakes and stuff um so I didn’t need to identify that but it was done like an open forum at the end of a lecture like the papers were there and if you wanted to go through your paper the option to look at it and see where you’d gone wrong er I didn’t take that opportunity because I didn’t feel that I needed to but obviously | 04:33 |
| P | They did that as well with the presentations as well in my second year they had um you’d come and put your powerpoints up and show them and look at it for size, and have your student’s feedback as well, that was in your own time if you wanted to come you didn’t have to, and the lecturer there so they can go through it if they saw something make it bigger er cut down on the slides the amount of information on one slide so that that was quite helpful I thought | 05:07 |
| S | Was that before the assessment or after | 05:38 |
| P | Before, we had like um, it was half an hour presentation…so they invited you in to sort of, go over it first, if you wanted to um, I mean, you might have only done a few slides at that point but just they can sort of say yeah you’re on the right lines or…um the size was good, so, before the assessment so I think that was good to know you were going in the right direction, I think | |
| S | Do you get that with all of your assessments, an opportunity to practice what is going to the final assessment | 06:02 |
| P | Not really | |
| P | Not really | |
| P | I’d say there’s only one | |
| P | You’ve got access to the tutor (P Yeah) the personal tutor, and that’s what I utilise so I’ll arrange um with my personal tutor to see them and I’ll just run a few things through with them to see if I’m on the right track, and they’ll then steer me if they feel I need to speak to the module lead, because it’s more to do with module rather than what they can help me with then I’ll go and get directed that way but I’ve got the opportunity to utilise the teaching resources that we have, but I don’t think that’s sort of, broadcast, you know the personal tutor’s there but I don’t know if everyone’s fully aware of what they can do with their personal tutor so to speak… | |
| P | I think it’s always in my mind like um well at the end of the, say it’s an assignment, some lecturers do make it clear that you can email them with any questions or a little section of your assignment? Then I personally found that very helpful because even if it is just a little section, emailing it to a lecturer, and letting them, like point out like a few things that you could improve on, has actually helped me achieve better grades I feel, from the first year to the second year | 06:52 |
| S | So are there some module assessments that you do get feedback on, and some that you don’t? How would that match up do you think | 07:26 |
| P | The OSSEYs, we don’t get feedback, we get a grade and you know the area you don’t really know the area you’ve, fallen down on, um…cos my one I just got one minus, which I was pleased with, but I still obviously fell down on a few marks and I would have liked to have known where, what I had fallen down on, you’re not sort of given an area where you fell down on | |
| P | Yeah (Several participants talking) OSSEYs are difficult, OSSEYs are because it’s er, you’re looking at a pattern recognition um, and you, we like to know we’re looking at the right things and obviously so | 08:00 |
| P | It would be nice to know you’re looking at a paper (Several participants talking) wouldn’t it (P Yeah) it would be nice to get it back so you’d know exactly then where you’d fallen down | |
| P | Or just go through the whole slides and high you know point out (P Yes) what ideally we should be um, verbalising or writing, um for the image | |
| P | Yeah that would be helpful | |
| P | That’s all part of our learning yeah | |
| P | But all the assessments the assignments I mean the dissertation feedback was, I mean I know because of the nature it’s a big piece of work you get a lot of feedback that’s really good, I really felt like I’d seen the areas I’d done better in, um…so that was really helpful and the assignments generally you do get feedback don’t you sort of but | 08:30 |
| P | Plus also you’ve got the opportunity to expand upon that further so if you wanted to (P Yeah if you wanted to know more) if you wanted to know more they are approachable so there’s always that option to find more information | |
| S | So that’s, personally, you’ve got to do that, rather than it being set up for the whole class? Or | 09:08 |
| P | Yeah I think there’s some onus on like an individual like responsibility I mean at some point as a student you know you’ve got to take some responsibility for your study, I’m here for my learning I’m not here for someone else’s, so for me to improve it’s for me to go the extra mile so to speak but I feel the onus needs to be on the individual so you know if you sit back I don’t think you should spoon fed, being spoon fed is not you know learning is it, learning is actually being willing and wanting so it’s to the individual that some of the responsibility needs to be derrived | |
| P | I think as long as the feedback gives you you know what like on a powerpoint, one of our powerpoints I hadn’t um introduced what we were going to talk about at the beginning or round up at the end so they, so for the next one I knew exactly that I needed to do that so I think that’s the key isn’t it if it gives you, marks you down but then tells you why, you can improve yourself for the next assessments, that’s the best thing isn’t it, really | 09:48 |
| S | So [clears throat] it’s interesting then isn’t it because you’re a first year student? | 10:16 |
| P | Yes | |
| S | So how confident do you feel to then, go to somebody and ask them, what do they mean by these bullet points | |
| P | At the time, it was, very busy with them marking lots of dissertation work and there was work with the second years as well, so…although I knew where to contact them I felt like I wasn’t so important, at the time, so maybe I shouldn’t have, I shouldn’t contact them? Or, maybe that’s why they hadn’t given me such detailed feedback because they were busy with other people that maybe were, because the first year doesn’t necessarily count towards your grade, they were more important maybe? But now looking back on it I wish I had gone and pursued it I wish I had battled my point and wanted my extra feedback because now whether they’d be able to give me feedback in such detail having marked it a long time ago, maybe they wouldn’t be able to give me that such good feedback anymore, and yeah, I cos that’s something I really am not confident with, I feel like I really could have done with the feedback I really could have done with someone sitting down, because it’s my first year, next time I’ll then do that in second year and third year I won’t muck it up again, I’ll know what I did wrong and therefore won’t need to worry that after the exam getting the proper feedback…does that make sense? | |
| S | Yeah | 11:50 |
| Ps | Yeah | |
| P | I think cos as a first year you are overwhelmed (P Mm) you know it’s higher education and there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of demand there for you you know with the university plus placement you know on placement at the hospital and stuff it is difficult and I think it is hard and you are overwhelmed initially, um and maybe more support could be applied in the first year, I think as you bloom and you develop you get more confidence, you become focussed, you understand what you want more, I think you become more in the role as a radiographer that you then understand what learning you need to be doing, so your focus changes slightly, so you become more into the learning mode, er that’s for me personally, I don’t know if others feel the same, but you tend to change the focus slightly from the first year the first year you (P Mm), I meandered a bit um and now I’m more you know my dissertation proposal’s in, I sort of know where I want to be, I know I need to be looking for jobs, you know your focus changes I think, um and it is difficult and I think the worst thing is when they say your grades don’t count (S Mm) in the first year because you lose a bit of the momentum in a way (P Yeah) because you’re there’s no pressure, but in a way there is (P Yeah) because you’ve got to still pass and it’s not in some ways if you focussed higher you probably would develop and get better grades because you’ve got more pressure upon you | |
| P | I just like, yeah I feel like, I think that you’re completely right, and I agree with the whole you should lead your learning people that sit back, shouldn’t necessarily, if they don’t want to go and find someone that’s their problem, where as I did want to go and find someone, but felt like I wasn’t so important like the second years and third years are more important I do agree they’re more important because (Several participants talking) well I think they are in the fact that | 13:18 |
| P | Well they’re getting closer to finishing but I think you’re just as important (Several participants talking) because you’re going to be a second year (P But) then you’re going to be a third year (P Yeah) | |
| P | But the task I did is (P Mm) something you do in second year so, I’ve done it in the first year you might as well get the…you might as well learn how to do it rather than finishing at the same sort of level (P Yeah) and then getting the feedback that’s actually useful then after you’ve done the exam | 13:53 |
| P | Maybe they could have like a thing after your first (P Yeah) assessment or first assignment (P Yeah) just to go over, this is what they were looking for (P Yeah) so you can know, oh I fell down on that | 14:07 |
| P | Yeah even if they you know do an individual thing (Several participants talking) or pointed out like (Several participants talking) you didn’t do this particular word spelt right so they show us maybe give us maybe a list of twenty spellings that most people got wrong or…maybe because I know there were certain words that you couldn’t use? But remembering those words you couldn’t use I found very difficult because I didn’t write down the words you couldn’t use they’d just say well actually you remember you can’t use that word and before you’d written it down they’d moved on they’d be talking about something important so, it’s then difficult to know what you were meant to do what you weren’t meant to do, and then when they’re just very vague with the feedback, and that’s the only bit of feedback I’ve ever been given from uni, I haven’t been given any other feedback for any other assignments any other exams | |
| S | Just that one | 15:04 |
| P | Just that one and that was a long written piece | |
| S | And how, so how does that make you, what how do you feel about feedback if you’ve only had, how many modules do you do? | |
| P | Um…we’ve got | |
| P | Six I think | |
| P | At the moment one two three, then we have physics…um, there was another one in first year first semester (Several participants talking) | |
| P | Yeah evidence based health care (P Oh Yeah) but I think they’ve changed the name of that one | |
| P | And… | |
| S | There’s probably six isn’t there | |
| P | Yeah six | |
| S | But you’ve had feedback from one | 15:37 |
| P | From one and although it is a multiple choice for the physics…I’m not very good at physics and, I’m pretty sure that a lot of those multiple choices were guesses, and that doesn’t make me feel very confident about knowledge I’ve got, if, yeah I passed it, but I was guessing (P Mm) and obviously there’s a certain amount that you are going to get right I guess | |
| S | So how do you think you could have feedback from that that particular assessment then, what would you like? | 16:01 |
| P | I think it would be nice to be able to put our view across to them so we give them feedback would be a good way for us, to feel like we are being listened to…so we give them the feedback and they come back to us with answers that’s how I feel would work because you, I think it’d be difficult for them to know what we’ve guessed and what we haven’t…and because we do give feedback for every module back to them but it’s usually before we’ve had the assessment so there’s a question saying how was the assessment and most people just put N/A you know because we haven’t had the assessment yet and that’s the only opportunity we get to say something about the assessment…so we don’t then get something out of it I don’t feel | |
| S | So if you were to have that opportunity to have a view about the assessment where do you think that should be situated, when would you do that… | 16:59 |
| P | [breathes out] Maybe…I’d quite happily get an email? Maybe with, after the exam get an email just to say would you like to write a couple of sentences about the exam, then if you do want to you can if you don’t want to it doesn’t matter you don’t have to do it but at least they get a little bit so they kind of know they get to know the positives and they know the negatives, they don’t know the students that found it ok but they know the people that found it easier and know the people that found it hard | |
| S | What about them feeding back to you where would you have that situated | 17:35 |
| P | Again I’d have an email just put round to say, these are the points we’ve come up with, this is how we’re getting back to you or maybe um, maybe a like walk in session, you just say you’ll be there for a bit to give you a little bit of feedback (Several participants talking) | |
| P | So before like sometimes we get the opportunity to do like a mock exam (S Mm) so we get maybe three practice questions I know we did that, last semester for one exam, but I feel like it would be more beneficial rather than because, it was optional like you can stay in the classroom and complete it or do it under exam conditions, but then afterwards you mark your own and you don’t really know where you’re going wrong or if you’re answering the questions correctly, so I feel like it is a lot of work and a lot of expectations to expect a lecturer to mark, a little bit of that mock exam rather than marking it yourself but I feel like it would be beneficial, if we all handed in like, one, question to them, and then the next week if we got that back, just to like just so they can see, how we’re doing and just so we can see this is not, how you approach this question, I don’t know it’s just something I would find quite helpful, just having some way of feedback so I know this is not how you approach this question | 18:00 |
| S | So do you get any opportunities to do practice sessions which match what the final assessments like in other modules | 19:16 |
| P | You get the format so we had some mock questions but those mock questions wouldn’t be in the exam otherwise it defeats the object of the exam because you would have prior information for it but it gives you an idea, I think what I struggled with was actually, knowing what they wanted to know, so as you’re studying you’re sort of like revising and that sort of element, it was the unknown until you got to the exam and then it was oh you want to know that and [exhales] not that you should be coached or anything like that but the emphasis of there’s a lot of information that we’re learning and to have, to be tested on 10 questions and you’ve got a subject matter that’s a lot larger than that it’s very difficult to focus, so you could concentrate yourself on a lot of anatomical elements er like for an OSSEY we had abdomen and spine so I learnt a lot about the abdomen, when it comes to the assessment there was hardly anything it was mainly spinal, and I think you had similar on yours this year didn’t you, so you could be caught out so you learnt a lot of that information and stuff I think I would have answered questions quite well on that but suddenly to have an exam that didn’t have anything to do with that was a bit of a curve ball because you know it was very difficult to focus what you needed to know and yes we are a broad banded sort of subject um, but it’s difficult and it’s hard because you know a lot of people could have banked on abdomen and the spinal questions would have meant that they did quite badly um you know so | |
| P | Because you have your assessment criteria on your (P Yeah) form don’t you so but sometimes, I think generally I’ve found it ok apart from my last OSSEY where MRI wasn’t mentioned and then when the first question was about MRI anatomy which is not what we are doing as qualified anyway, MRI, um so that’s a bit of a, that wasn’t in the assessment criteria so I think that’s the thing, if the assessment criteria it’s going to be this this this, and it’s abdos (P Mm) and it’s in there, but that’s the thing sometimes it’s not is it (P No) | 20:58 |
| P | Well our module title is spines, then the assess the actual assessment is abdo pelvis spine, and then three questions were on chest pathologies which we had covered, in one of the lectures but I thought, it’s unlikely to come up isn’t it and so I’d lost three marks already because I, I’d had a rough idea but I was not confident at all, so it’s just things like that, maybe probably like you said it might have been mentioned in the criteria but | 21:25 |
| P | I always look at the assessment critera now, I think with an of your assignments or anything if you look at the bullet point of what they’re looking for you know then you’ve got to cover all of that, I find that ok really only apart from that last one that I cocked up | 21:59 |
| P | Careful | |
| P | Yeah [laughs] | |
| P | I’m just going to, going back on a point, we do get the opportunity to er give feedback on the course modules, so there is a forum that’s held end of most semesters um so you have the opportunity with your lecturers to do that and you have the opportunity to do that and there’s your course rep so if you don’t actually want to mention it yourself you can go through your course rep so if there is any issues or anything you can bring it and bring it to your lecturer’s attention…um | |
| S | So you get written feedback for things like the assignments that you write, are there any other modules which you would like to have some feedback for that you don’t currently get feedback | 22:45 |
| P | Yeah I think exams | |
| Ps | Yeah | |
| P | Yeah because the exams you don’t um…for a first answer you need to elaborate you need to be more written more explanatory um where as bullet points or short answers although you’ve got, the right context there, that’s not like what’s expected and I think that needs to be instilled (P Mm) to us students because the fact that if you’re going to answer a question and it’s a long worded answer then you need to be writing it appropriately as it’s the expectation of what that answer should be rather than what we perceive it to be because I think that’s the difference and I think that’s where | |
| P | And you just get a grade for that and that’s it isn’t it (P Yeah) and the reason I guess why you don’t get your exam paper back is you haven’t got the images to correspond it to anyway and um then also, I guess they’re not allowed to do that because they might be in future exams (P Yes) I don’t know that might be the reason, but it might be nice I think to have the exam paper back just to show the area you might have struggled in yeah | 23:38 |
| P | And room for improvement | |
| P | Yeah for the next one, yeah | |
| P | But I know um that’s difficult because there’s, well there’s 37 in our group (P Yeah) I don’t know how many’s in your year and there’s a lot of time and effort to do the feedback element, so maybe that should be done offered as an opportunity for individuals to approach so | 24:02 |
| P | Well just an area because you have stations (P Yeah) don’t you so the first station will be all about abdomen or something won’t it (P Mm) and the second station will be all about bone tumours or something so if you even if you, even if you had it broken down into sections where you’d done better in and the ones you’d struggled in a bit more then that would help I think (P Mm) oh I need to brush up on that a bit more then next for the final one, the final exam… | |
| S | Would it help if you had, a session which was just, delivered as, these are the questions that most people struggled with and these are the answers that I would have been expecting, this is the question, that everybody got right so I’m not going to cover that one (P Mm) so it would be a more broad, kind of not individualised to you (P Yeah) but actually this is a question that people didn’t do so well and this is what I wanted you, that kind of (Several participants talking) | 24:39 |
| P | If there was a shortfall in the group learning then that would indicate that’s an area that needs to be shored up whereas if if there’s like only a few individuals that struggled on a particular question then that point probably doesn’t need to be laboured (P Yeah to the extent that) but those individuals should still be aware that that’s an area they could have for improvement | 25:14 |
| P | It’s difficult isn’t it because you could have done really well on the stations except the last one which has got bone tumours (P Mm) and you got zero marks or something so that could be an area that just says this is an area you fell down on and I know you might have lost marks here and there but if there’s a specific area because you’ve got another exam in the third year which we’ve done recently there are things in that that were in the other one so it is is similar so if there is something you are falling down on that would be nice to know and that I think | |
| S | And do you think that would be something that people would be, voluntarily taking up or do you think it should be something that is timetabled as this is um, a session that we’re running, the expectation is that you come | 26:03 |
| P | See I’m I’m a bit older, so my thing is that it’s individuals have responsibilities for themselves and should take responsibility, so I would say that it should be voluntary from the individuals and it shows that you’re willing to learn because it’s like you know, you’re rewarded because you’re showing effort I think it’s like I said earlier if you spoon feed there would be individuals that could quite happily could sit back, and take that, but at some point in their life they’ve got to take responsibility for themselves | |
| P | And I think sometimes these OSSEYs they’re, because they’re image viewing and because this is what we’re doing out in practice and you might have to highlight like a thorax or something for example, um if you’re consistently missing that or a lot of people are missing that that could affect you in practice, that is essentially what we are supposed to be spotting so you’re missing it and there’s lot of people missing that same thing, that doesn’t prove that people are taking it in (P Mm) um or a certain fracture or something that people are missing, that would be good to highlight that because that’s going to help patients really [laughs] at the end of the day isn’t it if you miss something | 26:52 |
| S | So you do um…am I thinking that you do a VIVA is that right? (Ps Mm) and do you get feedback on that? | 27:30 |
| P | Only a little bit | |
| S | How does that happen, how do you get feedback for that | |
| P | We had a mock…we got, so we got um was it (Several participants talking) there was one question to see how we, to give us an idea of format for that, we got a little bit of feedback from that and then, then when we did when we did the VIVA [laugh] sweats um there was feedback there was a pdf attachment wasn’t there (P Yeah) that we get with for our grade and then there’s a little bit of feedback on there | |
| P | I think they’d written it (P Yeah) during the interview they’d kind of written down or afterwards shortly afterwards because we had a mock interview as well and they’ll write down feedback for you and it’s obviously just scanned in because they’re written it in (P Mm) so that’s quite good they’ve written it after the person has left | 28:15 |
| P | So it’s still fresh | |
| P | Yeah, so it’s been done retrospectively, and then I think you’ve got that so you can see um, where you’ve got areas to improve upon so also you can then approach whoever um accordingly tutor wise who can advise you how to improve? So I mean there’s the Library Services and you know there’s plenty of resources here available in the university to utilise um… | |
| S | So can I just ask, have you found that kind of feedback for something like the VIVA, did you find that enough? Or | 29:03 |
| P | Um I personally like, I don’t, reading feedback I find hard to understand like, it was mentioned earlier but I do find it quite hard to understand what more I could do? So but I think then again I think it’s my responsibility to go and question that afterwards…I’m someone that would prefer a five minute like chat to discuss exactly what they need, I don’t know whether that could be, I mean there is, it is up to me to go and do that, but even if it was scheduled or something to like, have the opportunity to go through what I need, because having it written down it doesn’t always, like when I look back at the feedback that I’ve been given it’s the same things coming up so that’s showing that I’m not really improving in that aspect…do you see what I mean? | |
| S | Absolutely, so that’s concerning you (P Yeah) that you don’t quite know… | 30:11 |
| P | Yeah because now I’m going into third year soon…obviously we’ve got our dissertation and so I’m worrying a little that, like the same thing that’s been letting me down since first year is going to now be letting me down in the biggest piece of work we’ve got to do, but you know | |
| P | I can see in a way if it’s the same thing that maybe that should have been picked up upon? By someone? So as they could have as I said everyone has strengths and weaknesses (P Yeah) but…if I was managing someone and I kept noticing that the same thing kept popping up I would then, put in a measure to support that person? So maybe there should be a bit more from the tutoring staff to identify people’s strengths and weaknesses to give appropriate feedback and development to individuals because to optimise is great and that um so maybe there’s an element, and I’m thinking as well I’m quite confident, other people aren’t I mean I’ve got to an age where I know what I want and I’m happy to be a bit bullish and push for that and maybe overspeak people whereas (P Yeah I’m not) other people don’t have that confidence so where I take responsibility because I know what I want other people won’t have that confidence so there needs to be a broad measure rather than something specific because you will in a group there will be individuals you know that need to be nutured a bit more | |
| P | I think even we have our personal tutors so even if, so that splits our class up a little, so even if it’s our personal tutor’s responsibility to look through their like pupil’s grades um and look at the common themes that come up with certain students and organise like meetings with them to discuss how they could help | 31:45 |
| S | Do you have that structured into your timetable with your personal tutor or do you have to ask yourself | 32:14 |
| P | I think you’re allowed two meetings with them per semester or something | |
| P | You have got them there but you have (P Yeah) it’s yourself that has to organise that and I wonder whether or not they should be a bit more (Several participants talking) yeah | |
| P | In the first year the tutor I had left um, but we used to have regular sort of meetings with that group and then she left and then they were short staffed and it sort of stopped really, so I don’t know if there is, it’s up to you to contact them then | |
| P | Yeah, I wonder if there should be some focus groups with (Several participants talking) with personal tutors with them with their tutees and have a focus group there to give the opportunity to ask anyone if they’re not feeling confident enough or if they’re struggling or if they could do a bit more you know if they’re that individual’s identified a weakness where they feel they’re not very good, to try and develop and I think that’s a possibility (Several participants talking) where | |
| P | Yeah it’s up to you (P Yeah) if you want a certain grade you’ve got to work for it or contact people to help you whereas maybe other people some people are not confident enough to do it (Several participants talking) | 33:15 |
| P | I think that’s something that could be developed the personal tutor element (P Yeah) and I’m aware they’ve had staffing issues (P Yeah) [laughs] so there’s been quite large personal, you know tutor groups for personal tutors something like because they’ve not had the staff for it so maybe that’s impinged on it but maybe it’s something that should be brought in a bit more um you know maybe a formal meeting once a semester just to sit down and go, how’s it going (P That’s a good idea yeah) how are things, you know do you feel as if you’re doing ok and stuff but then also having the information back you know so about attendance and that kind of stuff, because to talk to the individual you know if you’re not attending lectures you’re not learning so if you’re not doing particularly well maybe it should be pointed out you need to attend your lectures and or if you’ve done an exam or assessment and you haven’t done particularly well and you feel like there’s an area for improvement the tutor can then come in, because sometimes that subject has to be raised by someone else because ssome individuals don’t like to be told their weaknesses do they | |
| S | No it’s interesting isn’t it (P Mm) because you’ve potentially got six different markers who may all be saying the same thing but none of them know that the others are saying the same thing (P Mm) (Ps Yeah) you do (P Yeah) but they may not (P Mm) | 34:37 |
| P | Maybe even have those meetings set up and then you can opt out of them because if someone doesn’t want to come then they say | |
| P | Yeah it depends on the individual doesn’t it because some people may not like them anyway | |
| P | If someone doesn’t want to have a meeting they don’t have to if someone can’t be bothered to turn up to the meeting and can’t be bothered to organise it in their schedule they can say they’re not coming, but at least they have that option (Several participants talking) | |
| P | But the option was there wasn’t it and you’ve got the opportunity | 35:08 |
| P | And the lecturers haven’t wasted their time waiting around for someone that’s not going to turn up…although they can do something else for that slot | |
| S | OK so if I could just sort of clarify in my own mind, what you’re kind of saying is that sometimes the written feedback is coming back to you, and you’re not sure what to do with it because it says something but what you’d really like is some sort of face to face interaction to unpick what that actually means for you personally (Ps Yeah) ok, and the other thing I’m hearing is, that you have, exams and OSSEYs and you may do well or you may not but you are not sure where you have fallen down because you may not know which areas you’ve done well (P Which area it was yeah) (Several participants talking) so you’d like some sort of feedback perhaps for that | |
| P | Or maybe you’re not quite interpreting the question right and that’s where you’ve fallen down or you keep going off on tangents and that’s where you’re falling down | 36:07 |
| S | So you don’t quite know | |
| P | Yeah it’s the unknown | |
| S | You’ve done well but you still don’t quite know | |
| P | Yeah, you’ve got a grade and you go cool oh I’m quite happy with that but you don’t quite know where your area, you know where your weakness is (S Yeah) um | |
| S | Ok so um…are there, so things like you, the VIVAs just for instance, you were happy that you had a practice at that so are there other assignments where you think it would have been really good if you could had some sort of practice mid way through and that would have kind of pointed us in the right direction, are there modules that you think that might have worked for? | |
| P | We did a poster this, um semester…and with that we were given the opportunity we got a poster session, and that poster session we got to see previous posters that had been generated, not for the same subject matter, but like comparisons of the two modalities and with that we got the opportunity to see someone who had produced a first quality, a 2:,1 a 2:2 and a third, so you got the opportunity to see those, to contextualise what sort of information’s required um, so I think there was plenty of feedback you know opportunity to see with that to produce your poster | 36:54 |
| P | I think even with dissertations there’s that as well (P Yeah) you can access those online as well you know old dissertations (P Mm) so you kind of | 37:35 |
| P | The information’s there, and I it’s like the next bit is if you’re not quite sure then approach someone accordingly to | |
| P | And they’re always happy with ideas for assignments like when you’re having to pick your own ideas (P Yeah) they’re always happy for you to email them and they come back quite quick I’ve found they come back quite quick and say oh that’s a good idea or | |
| S | So, we would say that you would have that you had the opportunity to have a practice kind of session for the posters (P Mm) do you then get a feedback session for the posters? Or don’t you know that at the moment | 38:00 |
| P | Yeah we did didn’t we | |
| P | Oh for for the assignment, I’ve just got my assignment result | |
| S | And do you get feedback? | |
| P | Yeah there’s the there’s points on there | |
| S | And what does that look like, that looks like written feedback? | |
| P | Yeah it’s typed out on a proforma so there’s a proforma for that, and I think they’re changed the proforma slightly so they’re broken it down into individual areas um, and give graded accordingly and then you get your overall grade with that, and then there’s um what they liked, and where there was areas for improvement | |
| S | And how did you find that | |
| P | I was upset I didn’t get [laughs] the grade I, I thought I’d done better than that but you know, it’s, I think that’s all relative at the end of the day what you perceive it is, you know I liked it, it looked nice [laughs] but um how someone else then perceives it is something else so I’ll probably digest that when I get home tonight | 38:46 |
| S | Oh is this quite recent then | |
| P | Yeah it’s today [Participants laughing] no no no it’s fine and sort of I’ll digest it when I get home tonight I’ll look at it and I’ll probably show it to the dog a couple of times just cos the dog’s there | 39:09 |
| S | How did you, just that’s a really interesting type thing to ask you then, if you thought you were going to get a better grade (P Mm) what made you think that…what did you base that on, because you just said it looked nice | |
| P | Time, effort, but the amount of work that I put into it, I thought I’d, I looked at the criteria I thought I’d done what was required, it’s just personal perception isn’t it | 39:37 |
| P | That’s how I felt for mine | |
| P | It’s personal perception isn’t it | |
| S | It shouldn’t be personal perception though | |
| P | No it’s difficult how else do you know if it’s good or not when there’s no other barometer to say until you’ve submitted it and you get your grade | |
| P | There’s the assessment criteria (Several participants talking) | |
| P | Yeah I checked the assessment criteria | 40:04 |
| S | You thought that you’d met that | |
| P | Yeah I thought that it was, bang on | |
| S | OK so it will be really interesting, it’s a pity that you only got it today really, when you when you look at that when you look at the criteria whether what they’ve fed back to you matches (P Mm) the mark | |
| P | Yeah because I struggle with the criteria element (S Right) so I’m not, I’m a bit odd, so in that format I struggle with getting my head round what they’re looking for and what they’re marking and I struggle with that a little bit | |
| S | For the poster? Or for | |
| P | Just when it comes to assessments and stuff I struggle with the criteria I go through it and I sort feel as if I’ve done that but I can’t, I don’t, I probably I don’t analyse it enough | 40:39 |
| S | So I suppose what I wanted to ask then is if you had an opportunity to do, a practice poster (P Mm) that in essence, has been marked but not marked as though (P As in graded yeah) with feedback would that have helped | |
| P | Oh yeah because I would have gone away and submitted something that was far better (Several participants talking) [laughs] you would improve | 41:11 |
| P | I wouldn’t want to do two of them posters it would take forever [laughs] | |
| P | But you should improve technically speaking if you was to do that there’s no reason why that your second poster you submit shouldn’t be better | |
| P | But I guess you shouldn’t, that’s your assessment and I suppose you shouldn’t (P Yeah) you cant keep practising I guess at some point you’ve got to do it | |
| S | But in a sense you haven’t practiced at all (P Mm) you’re not saying you cant keep practicing, you never had a practice (P Mm) again is that a problem? | |
| P | I think it’s difficult because it’s like everyone has got different strengths and weaknesses (P Mm) so the poster I didn’t think that was particularly too bad, it was a pain, it was time consuming, you know as you’re on placement it fits in, it’s difficult to get things done, I mean the worst thing I struggled on was the critique, we had an article that we had to critique, it was something it was not something that I’ve done normally, done before, it was new to me it was something that I powered through, I’ve done it, I never want to have to do it again hopefully, it was one of those ones but I knew that when I took on this course there would be some subject matters that maybe I wouldn’t be particularly good with, wouldn’t float my boat and stuff like that, so there’s always going to be something that isn’t sexy or tasty or something like that where you have to do something you’re always going to have some sort of subject matter where you’re going to have to pull the stops out for so to speak you’ve got to push through um | 41:44 |
| S | So did you get feedback for that, was that written feedback? | 42:42 |
| P | Not yet I’m still waiting for that and touchwood…I’ve passed (P laughs) | |
| S | Sorry you were about to say something I think | |
| P | Um…I would say maybe, have the practice as an optional practice so if you want to practice you can, and you get feedback, if you don’t feel that the practice would be beneficial and you would rather put your all into the real thing, then you don’t have to do it, but there’s that option if you want to | |
| S | Do you, I haven’t asked this question before but do you get the opportunity to put in drafts for any assessments | 43:15 |
| P | I think you’re allowed to put in small sections of like long assignments (P Yeah) | |
| P | So like putting in snippets of like long paragraphs or something, you’ll be given feedback but you can’t (P Give it) give in the whole thing as a draft and go what do you …. and um (P That’s reasonable) yeah I think that’s reasonable because it’s an assessment and if you’ve got someone putting feedback in um, that’s guiding you is it your own work then so, (S OK, like coaching) yeah it’s a difficult thing we’re showing our learning we’re showing our own knowledge by how we then glimmer the information from elsewhere like with our references so it’s like what broad reading background we have to gather the information so in a way the grade reflects the effort you’ve done so long as you meet the criteria, if you’re not meeting the criteria you can put a lot of effort in (S Mm) but you’ll get zero reward because it hasn’t ticked the boxes you haven’t shown the relevant information | |
| S | Ok so we’ve talked about the feedback that you get from the university side of things, um what about the feedback that you get at placement what’s that like | 44:32 |
| P | You get daily feedback because you get your hours signed off at the end of the day and they’ll write comments and, it’s got areas for improvement as one of the boxes and they’ll write something in to say | |
| P | I don’t like that box though because I think the amount of times people have said, oh I cant think what to put especially for third year as we’re getting more competent and they’ll just put something and you’ll think oh but there is no issue with that so why do it (Several participants talking) | |
| P | They feel the need to put something | |
| P | Yeah just put just put a line through it you have to put an area for improvement, as you’re that far on I just think that, and they don’t like doing it do they, we had this discussion the other day didn’t we [laughs] | 45:04 |
| P | Yeah (P laughs) it’s difficult as you’re putting someone on the spot and saying judge me (P You feel the) and people don’t like that do they (P No) so it is difficult I know it’s a part of their role (Several participants talking) | |
| P | I can understand it in first year but maybe in third year having an N/A option (P Mm) | 45:29 |
| P | Because we have tick boxes for the person that’s going to write your report at the end of the week I feel that’s not truly reflective sometimes, because you have some, members of staff that will, read every box and tick it accordingly or you’ll just have some that will go all the way down as expected (P Mm) so it doesn’t really help me in any way | |
| S | So its subjective depending on whether it’s | 45:57 |
| P | Yeah it’s a bit disappointing if you have worked hard that week and you’re just getting as expected, and you’ve put a lot of effort in and you’re expecting something more so I feel like it’s not beneficial at all, the little comment at the end is more beneficial than the tick boxes (P Mm) yeah definitely | |
| S | So if you were to mark, out of 10 the feedback that you give from placement, 10 being the highest, what, what would your mark be… | 46:15 |
| P | Depends on different years I think | |
| S | As you stand now | |
| P | As it stands now…a six, seven? | |
| P | Where as I would say it’s more like an eight and I’m in first year | |
| S | So you’re third year? | |
| P | Yeah | |
| S | First year | |
| P | And second year | |
| P | So it’s subjective I’d probably say seven to eight because it depends (S OK) it really depends on the individual whose doing your station report | |
| S | OK, so if we are going to talk about the academic feedback you get, and I just want this to be over the whole year, what would you say about it out of 10 | 46:48 |
| P | Oh I’d probably say, for me personally, about nine this year because we’ve had a lot more feedback this year I think dissertation wise and things (S OK) | |
| P | For first year maybe even a four or five (S OK) but from what everyone’s said it sounds like it gets more [laughs] | |
| S | It’s ok you need to raise this in the moment | |
| P | Six again (S OK) | |
| P | Six or seven, round about there | |
| S | So yours is kind of matching (P Mm) the placement feedback, yours is less, placement is more, and yours is, kind of academic is much higher (P Yeah) ok, so if I was then to ask you the question, when you get to the third year you’ll get an opportunity to do the National Student Survey, how would you rate out of 10, the feedback, so pretend now you’ve done, you’re only sitting with the knowledge that you’ve got now, how would you rate the feedback that you get on a programme | 47:20 |
| P | For the whole thing or just | |
| S | However you want to do it | |
| P | I’d say seven then | 47:55 |
| P | I’d do seven as well | |
| P | Same | |
| P | Six or seven that sort of area | |
| S | OK, it’s not that high is it, so there’s something missing, what’s missing… | |
| P | I think probably nobody’s discussed the personal tutor element (P Yeah) more so (P More so) someone behind you going, just sort of like pulling you to the side and just saying how’s it going, or maybe just giving you that little bit of feedback saying I think you’re doing really well, I think you’re doing good, you know that sort of thing a little bit of a confidence thing, sometimes you just need a bit of a, you know | |
| P | I have used my personal tutor but mine was because I was off ill and I was finding it difficult to catch up with a few bits and I wanted to make sure I was using the right methods of doing it but…I felt like I really desperately needed that where as if I, I probably wouldn’t if I failed a test think oh probably would they have time for me and get a bit nervous about that (P Mm) so unless I’m absolutely desperate I probably wouldn’t go for it | 48:35 |
| S | So what you’re looking for is someone who has an overview of everything that’s happening to you, and wants to talk to you as in, it’s scheduled that you would be talking to them (P Yeah) rather than waiting for you to decide that you’ve got an issue and go and ask | 49:02 |
| P | Yeah because maybe there’s an issue that I haven’t even picked up on and | |
| P | I don’t know because if it was scheduled on like the 13th of June you will be at 2 o clock you will see your personal tutor and you will discuss your issues, um it’s more of an impromptu element that your personal tutor comes up to you and says have you got five minutes how are things going, more like that more informal rather than something that’s done formally | |
| P | Or even if they say, Wednesday Thursday Friday next week I’ve got free and you send them an email saying 2:30 on Thursday and they’ll say yes or no and you can go and talk to them, so it’s kind of they give you options of when they’re available and if you want to then you can go and talk even if it’s to give good things you can go and say I’m doing really well this is going really great for me, so they get good stuff and bad stuff | 49:50 |
| P | Yeah I think it’s I agree with both of you it’s someone that wants to get to know you and how you are? So some, I don’t know, someone that they see that you are doing well and they want to tell you that or they see that you’re not doing well but it’s just having it written down doesn’t always like, check in with me? | 50:19 |
| P | Realise you’ve got potential and tell you you’ve got potential (P Yeah) so I could be not doing well and someone says you know, come on you’re better than that, giving you that bit of reassurance, pat on the back you know | |
| P | Yeah I think that on placement, you do have individuals that will come up to you and say like you’re, you really improved this year and that will give you a big boost, or you’re not doing so well on this one why don’t you and they might recommend a few books or an anatomy that you could look up, just a few things that might help you along the way (S OK) | 50:57 |
| P | Yeah and I think that on the feedback at the hospital what would be nice is that you get a station report it’s filled in on a Friday afternoon or something when they’re rushing off isn’t it and you read it but there’s no chance for them well there probably is you could go find them I guess and say but it would be nice if you have five minutes to go over your feedback rather than just giving you two bits of paper (P Mm) and then they’re off again it might be nice that that’s written in that on Friday afternoon if surely there’s five minutes they can spare even for a coffee or something, just to go through how they feel you’ve done that week, I think that would help you more than just reading it (P How you could have) when I was got home or once they’d gone | 51:22 |
| P | Because it’s always about trying to give as best service as possible (P Yeah) to a high standard and the only way that you’ll know you’re doing it right is if someone’s telling you you’re doing it right (P Yeah) and that’s the difficulty because you’ll could have had a good week but you can still go away feeling oh I don’t know if I did them x-rays right (P Yeah) maybe I could have done them better and you’re constantly being assessed but it’s just that little bit of, it’s confidence, and I think it’s consistency, you know and having the confidence to say | 51:59 |
| P | You really notice it if someone says you’ve really helped this week (P Mm) or just a little bit, rather than just going through the motions of student fill the form in and they go it would be nice to have a bit more (P Yeah) of a you are improving or you are | 52:30 |
| P | Because luckily on placement if you’re doing badly you sort of know you’re doing badly because it’s highlighted you know you’re told your image comes out and you know the image paints a thousand words doesn’t it (P laughs) you can see if you’ve missed something off it’s completely obvious so you can see and you will develop with that but if you’re just ambling along producing you know images and stuff sort of you just pass by don’t you (P Mm)…so it’s difficult but and it’s dependent on your radiographers as well, so some radiographers on placement are very good at giving feedback (P Mm) and others they’re a bit more not stand offish because it’s just personalities and stuff but you don’t get the feedback from them but, they’ll probably tell a colleague oh that was good but you don’t get to hear that because they don’t feel as if they shouldn’t tell you or there’s other issues | |
| P | I find as well with some radiographers, say I’m feeling tired one day, I might not be bubbly and like I usually am, some radiographers will ignore that and be like oh you’re not putting in the effort I’m not (P Mm) and they’ll ignore you for the whole day…whereas some radiographers will say oh you alright, you’re not yourself, come on get involved more, and that’s where you’ve got the opportunity to say oh sorry I’m so tired I’ll try and keep up, and I think that’s really useful, rather than, because there’s some students who will if they can, stay in the background get their hours signed off and go home but…then there’s, that needing a little bit of encouragement to say, oh you alright, come on [laughs] | 53:43 |
| S | So you feel as if you kind of need that positive affirmation that things are going ok or they’re not going ok but at least you know you can hang that on | 54:28 |
| P | Yeah | |
| P | Yes as long as we know, if we know we’re going in the right direction that’s good, if we know we’re stalling, it’s easier to get better if we know it’s there, we might not I might not even realise I’m tired and not getting involved (Several participants talking) | |
| P | I like to be told when I’m going wrong as well (Ps Yeah) If I’m doing something wrong I’d rather me keep doing it wrong someone just said look, let’s deal with this, but I think that’s personal perception as well because some people don’t like but m thing is if I’ve got an issue (P Tell me) I like to deal with it straight away, tell me I dust off next day I’ve forgotten about it let’s carry on that’s my nature someone else’s nature is they might hold a grudge they might you um know internalise it they don’t pigeon hole it they have an issue it’s there so everyone’s different it’s difficult because we are all individuals the radiographers are all individuals | 54:55 |
| P | I just take it as it is so if someone says that’s bad I think oh I’ll do it better, if someone says that’s good I think that’s good, but if someone says that’s good but doesn’t really mean it I don’t really think, was that good, do they mean it, should I just accept that is that acceptable | 55:34 |
| P | Maybe radiographers should have a little bit more preparation to when in practice, for the education of others because it’s part of our breeding once we’re qualified that we help and educate others but there’s no actual, I don’t know if there’s anything on the course that tells you how you should nurture train mentor and stuff like that um so you | |
| P | You do have an assignment in third year on that | 56:15 |
| P | There is is there? Yeah, so maybe that could be developed a little bit more because it’s that element | |
| P | I think for some of them know the programme a little bit more because for some of them it’s so long since they trained it would be nice to know to have a rough idea of what you’re supposed to achieve when you’re there because like we’re doing cross sectional for one module or maybe if we’d written somewhere first years are doing this second years are doing this just so they know what areas we’re trying to work towards what competencies we’re trying to gain (P because) a lot of them don’t really know do they | |
| P | No, but culturally we’re quite lucky we’re on our placement site, other placement sites are not so good because they have bad cultures | 56:48 |
| P | Our placement site’s really quite nice | |
| P | If you make it clear to the radiographers, what you want to get out of that week then they will often at ours try to help you with that (P Yes) but its making them aware communicating with them and not just telling them on a Friday afternoon that this is what you needed (P Yeah) so I think that’s when they get annoyed | |
| P | Being prepared isn’t it and organised | 57:19 |
| P | I needed to do some more abdomen to raise my competencies I just write on the white board in each department and I got called every time they needed an abdomen so I could get more practice and it was really good | |
| P | And as I said, that sort of responsibility, we’re given our reports we say what we’re looking for that week, if we’re filling out first thing in the morning when you’re sort of doing it you had Saturday Sunday or whatever to fill that out to be prepared before you went into that area to be prepared and to research the area so I’m going into nuclear med this week I’ve already looked into nuclear med and what we do just so when I go in there I’m not, I know what we’re going to be talking about you know MRI just so to know what you’re doing before you go in makes so much of a difference (Several participants talking) and you get more feedback so there’s an element of just being but if you’re not aware of that you know you’ve got to box clever it’s like as far as I’m concerned I look at it as a three year interview, on placement | |
| S | I felt it was quite interesting listening to you when you mentioned that you make sure that you linked what you needed to learn for placement so you were very proactive you knew you had to do that, and yet you somehow have not felt able to do that with the feedback you’ve had at uni, can I just ask you why the academic feedback (P Yeah) why was that then mismatched do you think | 58:22 |
| P | I know the radiographers, I can recognise someone and tell you their name, if I saw someone in town I’d say hi, everyone calls me Lizzie lecturers here call me Elizabeth they don’t know who I am, so it’s very difficult to approach someone, when you only see them on a professional sort of they’re my teacher, they’re not someone that I know well or would go and approach and say I don’t get this, and they’ll know oh don’t worry Lizzie this is all you need to do which is what the radiographers would do I would quite happily run round any radiographer I feel I could pull aside and say look what do I do, and they’ll be able to say something I know I don’t necessarily have to go to my tutor there that I’m assigned to or my clinical lecturer, I could talk to anyone, whereas here my tutor is Jane and although Jane is quite approachable I don’t know her very, I really know her, I’ve talked to her a couple of times um… | |
| P | I think I was a bit like that in the first year as well I think it just develops doesn’t it (Several participants talking) | 60:01 |
| P | Yeah and she’s very busy I know she’s one of the busier ones (P Yeah) she’s not just a lecturer she has a lot of other things going on | |
| P | It’s more of a formal setting here isn’t it (P Yeah more formal) you’re sat there’s a desk there’s a person behind that desk they’re going to speak to you so there’s that more of that format whereas in placement you’re sort of mixed in, you’re one of the staff um so you sort of there’s a bit more joviality | |
| P | There is one lecturer that knows my name and that’s Holly and she is quite chatty she does tend to get on with the students she does like to know stuff about you even though it’s not necessarily her responsibility to (P Mm) and I find if I don’t understand things in the lesson if I literally say at the end of her lesson, slide four what the hell was that she will quite happily put it back up and say in other words this and I’ll go ah thanks and that’s what I need…so I don’t know if its that kind of | |
| S | If I was just to say to you that the university I’m at we have a personal tutor system which is written into the programme as in you get a personal tutor in year one that runs a module called professional development and that is all your pastoral stuff but also all your academic stuff like referencing and everything is put into one module that personal tutor stays with you for three years and in that module they have set times where they will meet you every half term, it’s established you have to come but you would have an individual tutorial meeting they would know exactly where you were, would that model suit you? | 61:08 |
| Ps | Yeah (Several participants talking) | |
| P | I was thinking ooh, great minds think alike [laughs] | |
| P | I think the problem here is the staff isn’t it (P Yeah) I mean since I’ve started there’s been such a change around of staff I mean three have gone three or four have gone so that might be the issue with that (Several participants talking) | 61:55 |
| P | So you’ve got personal tutors that you’re allocated because they’re placement personal tutors | |
| S | It’s because it’s a module it’s set in, so that module is one of your six modules, so every year there is a professional development module, which is run by your tutor so your tutor knows you very very well is that something that you, so what I’m hearing is the feedback’s there but the mismatch is you’re not having the opportunity to be so close to someone is stopping you from asking the questions (Ps Yeah) the reason why I’m saying this is because the staff are really keen to know what it is that’s stopping the students, saying in something like the NSS why feedback isn’t 10 out of 10 because for them they feel it ought to be so there’s something that they’re not (P They’re just sort of out of sync) there’s a mismatch and you need to unpick what that is | |
| P | That lesson sounds good anyway but when I started I had no idea how to reference, and it was me going out of my way to try and look on the internet and try to work out what system to use, I think there was a lesson in the library that you could ask for but when I went to the Library there wasn’t any staff that I could ask and when I did email them I didn’t get a reply and so then it was me, to be honest I turn up there’s no staff, I email there’s no reply, I’d given up I shouldn’t I should keep trying for the next couple of weeks and if I don’t get a response then I should give up (Several participants talking) | 63:06 |
| P | But most people they’re like rabbits in the headlights, when I first come over I was like oh god what am I doing (Several participants talking) and it’s like you’re being given that soft element of being given that and developed | 63:51 |
| P | You don’t need to do it for all three years (Several participants talking) | |
| P | But that could follow on cant it but you already laid the groundstone (Several participants talking) | |
| P | It gives you a chance to bring up feedback from your assessments doesn’t it or discuss anything you’re worried about | 64:14 |
| P | And knowing that someone knows where you’re at is better than keep explaining to someone where you are or who you are and they know what level should be working at | |
| P | So you think that model would | |
| P | Yeah it would be really good | |
| P | I can talk to them about it | |
| P | I mean my clinical lecturer said to me, um last week, I was pulled to the side and we sat down because something didn’t go the way I wanted it and so she sat me on the side and said academically you’re doing really well and I said am I because I said we get feedback on that but you don’t actually know where you are because you sort of I know I’m not doing too badly because my grades aren’t bad so I know I’m doing ok but I don’t know how well I’m doing if you know what I mean, not that I want to know how I’m doing compared to other people, I don’t you know that’s not important to me but to be told that yeah you’re doing ok and you’re actually alright is reassuring I sort of laughed and said am I you know really, so it was good it was reassuring to hear that (P It’s a confidence thing) but I don’t get that from UCS, there’s not that element there, it might be in some sort of way but it’s not the same as sat down with my clinical lecturer we have a good rapport and I get on well with my personal tutor but there isn’t that sort of thing you’re doing well if you keep doing this you’ll be fine | 64:41 |
| P | Because they keep doing this like your personal tutor comes to the hospital to do a focus group don’t they (P Yeah) but it was cancelled last time and it wasn’t done again was it, I don’t think we haven’t had one for about a year, but that would be nice if your personal tutor comes to the hospital to meet with the students as well (Several participants talking) and has a coffee with the students as well and says any issues or that would be quite nice | 65:52 |
| P | Something about that as well when I started I was at Peterborough hospital whereas I’m now at Ipswich I um…I was given Jane because she’s given everyone at Peterborough and now I’m at Ipswich and everyone else has got Jerome and as far as I’m aware I’ve still got Jane, I don’t know because no one’s given me any confirmation that it is Jane or said should you move to Jerome or anything like that…so….I don’t know if that would make me out of sync with everyone if Jane came along I don’t know if she’d know anyone at Ipswich hospital where as Jerome he would know everyone whose working at Ipswich hospital | 66:19 |
| S | I think you’d need to clarify that wouldn’t you | |
| P | Also you’re allocated a personal tutor, I don’t have any issues but somebody might have a personality clash, or just feel that they can’t they won’t get on with that individual because it’s just, the way their makeup is it’s just the way some people are and there’s no I’m not aware I don’t know if there’s any opportunity where you can have a different personal tutor, whether that’s option available, because there might be individuals that would use their personal tutor (Several participants talking) so whether someone has the opportunity and they’re aware of it that they can change so then they would probably use their personal tutor more um because they might find the personal tutor they’ve got is maybe, well might be perceived as being a bit scarey well they’re not but they perceive it that way | |
| S | Yep I can understand what you mean | 67:49 |
| P | I think as well where placement differs to UCS is that you have your clinical lecturer who will come round to you, well I can speak for our placement who comes round checks how you’re doing (P Yes) asks, just pulls you to one side and asks you how you’re getting on, then we also have a mentor as well who sees you in the Department and asks how you’re getting on but then you do have the formal meeting with them, um three times in the semester so I think there’s a lot of support there whereas here not so much | |
| S | OK I think I’m going to have to more or less draw it to a close but just one question I need to ask them you can ask if there’s anything you want to say, was um the type of feedback that you have at the moment you have mostly just written for assignments, and a bit of a written review for posters, but you don’t have anything for um exams so we’ve kind of established that…how would you feel about um having feedback that was audio, so actually you could have an audio feedback done through Blackboard where you listen to a tutor’s feedback, is this something that you would be interested in? | 68:28 |
| P | As in for the whole thing or individual | 69:14 |
| S | Individual assessments | |
| P | I think unless well from my point of view unless you could discuss it with them it’s probably just the same as written is it (Several participants talking) | |
| P | Although I’m not, it might be easy, strange isn’t it because written isn’t the same when someone verbalises isn’t it so maybe that would open dialogue more to hear it as verbalised and written but if there was a verbal, it might open up dialogue more, because it’s then more open in a way it’s quite personal to verbalise something isn’t it, it depends how though it needs to be [laughs] more interesting rather than just like monotone | |
| S | Right and the other thing that we do at my university using turnitin is you would upload your document to turnitin and at that point the marker is actually able to annotate the script so you do have a box that has written feedback but for instance if I said in the feedback we need to look at your referencing style what I would be able to do is bring in a speech bubble over and identify every place that you haven’t done it right (P Mm) every spelling and oh this is good a good opening paragraph or pity you didn’t strengthen your conclusion I would have expected you add this here is that something that you would think useful | 70:03 |
| Ps | Yeah, really useful | |
| P | Yeah because when Harvard referencing when it isn’t right | 70:45s |
| S | You didn’t know where | |
| P | Yeah is it because I left a space out because I didn’t put a space in did I miss a comma I didn’t put a comma and a full stop did I use et al wrong (Several participants talking) and you just follow on you know, so that would be really good, and also as you explained just highlighting (Several participants talking) | |
| S | So you think you would find that useful | 71:21 |
| P | Yeah it would be | |
| S | Because Blackboard offer that so it depends whether how the university IT use things (Several participants talking) well it’s different systems but it’s ok yeah because that’s | |
| P | I think that would be really useful and it may stop the need for having meetings because it’s all explained it’s pointed out already so you don’t need to have someone saying these were the spellings that were wrong this was the bit that was wrong | |
| S | It’s interesting isn’t it (Several participants talking) | |
| P | But it’s a bit more dialogue isn’t it the more information you’re given more stimulus to respond whereas you’ve got maybe just one sentence and you could kick yourself | |
| S | Yes that’s quite interesting I marked something before I came here to you this morning and I’ve said something along the lines of some of your text referencing style is incorrect but in it I’ve highlighted et al should be in not capitals I can’t think of the word now (P Italics) italics and lower case but if I haven’t highlighted that then all the person knows that some of their intext they wouldn’t have known (Several participants talking) (P I’m glad you’ve told us now [laughs] so there we are, yes, so you think that would be useful | 72:07 |
| P | And I think it should be used in first year second year and third year not just first year | |
| S | No no | 72:51 |
| P | On an application we had to do on a mock application for a job and on my feedback on my personal statement there were spelling areas and I was like no because I used to be a proof reader and I looked through it again I even got it to read it to me and I couldn’t find it anywhere and I never knew, I could have found him to tell me but I didn’t I just let it go I couldn’t find it so I didn’t know what part they were looking at so | |
| S | It’s really interesting isn’t it, there’s something about, at the moment you’re not being, something, there is a barrier to you going and asking but you still remember that | 73:28 |
| P | Yeah I could have done, I checked it again I was happy with my actual application that it was clear that there wasn’t any spelling errors and it was a bit of a generic feedback so I thought oh well I don’t know as long as I’ve checked it again and I’m happy I could have gone to him but I didn’t | |
| S | Ok so I’m happy that I’ve probably got everything from you that I would perhaps need to feedback, is there anything else that you’d like to tell me….no ok let’s turn it off then | |
| RECORDING ENDS | 74:20 |
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